A 60-year-old writer with a Nobel Prize in Literature and liver cirrhosis – In the character of Jacob McNeal, conceived by American playwright Ayad Akhtar, a whole range of traits and troubles emerge – and then some. Director András Dömötör, born in 1978, is bringing the play to the stage of Deutsches Theater.

Mr. Dömötör, what is the play „McNeal“ about?

András Dömötör: The play combines three central themes: toxic masculinity, art, and AI. At the center of the plot is a writer, Jacob McNeal, an old white man. He‘s predatory, but one with self-reflection and ambivalence. Right in the first scene, he learns that he could die soon. The next moment, he wins the Nobel Prize in Literature. This experience triggers a kind of self-confrontational intoxication. All the protagonist‘s self-doubts surface and throughout the play repeatedly lead to confrontations with others, especially with women: with his doctor, with his agent, with a POC reporter, but also with his son. At the same time, McNeal is also a great artist, so the play is also about the question of what art means to people and what the relationship between art and reality is. The play poses these questions through the motif of AI. The writer McNeal uses AI to write some of his books – without disclosing it. The play is set in the near future, showing an AI that is somewhat more advanced than ours today.

Cynics might say that the play tries to somehow throw together two socially relevant themes that don‘t actually fit together.

That would be a misunderstanding. The play doesn‘t treat the character McNeal and his conflicts judgmentally or ideologically, but analytically. I find that fascinating, and it‘s very relevant, though less in terms of societal debate, where ideological questions are often in the foreground. Those are important too, but „McNeal“ is about a person and their problems, a person who, by the way, understands their situation. McNeal is self-reflective, for example in the fifth scene, when a POC reporter says to him: „I hope there‘s a future with fewer people like you,“ and he replies: „I hope so too.“ He knows what‘s right, but he can‘t manage to act accordingly. So ultimately he‘s a tragic figure.

More articles from Berliner Morgenpost in English:

I still haven‘t quite understood how the two themes connect in the play. Why toxic masculinity and AI?

Good question. I have to admit, I found it cryptic for a long time as well. Now I think you can visualize the connection by considering the effect AI has on McNeal. It completely consumes him. That is, what he does to the women or to his son in his life, the AI does to him. He‘s a control freak, this egocentric, narcissistic writer – but AI is a force that‘s faster, stronger, smarter than him. And just as he instrumentalizes the people in his life, he himself is instrumentalized by it. In that way, the play comes full circle back to the present – Do we use AI or has AI been using us for a long time?

An interesting answer. I actually asked ChatGPT what relationship could exist between AI and toxic masculinity in a theater play. One suggestion was that there are parallels between the cool logic and capabilities of AI and the emotional suppression associated with toxic masculinity.

(enthusiastically) That‘s exactly what I just said! That has to go in the interview. Just as we‘ve said it.

Agreed.

I have to admit: I only came to this thought after weeks of reading the play again and again. And I‘m so happy that I had the thought myself, before AI, because that makes it my own. I don‘t like the idea of AI dictating my thoughts. From this example, you can see that not understanding is often beneficial, since it powers your own thinking and critical engagement.

Der Fall McNeal
Jacob McNeal (Ulrich Matthes) and journalist Natasha Braithwaite (Mercy Dorcas Otieno).© Thomas Aurin | Thomas Aurin

I notice from your answers so far, by the way, how differently we approach the text: I read it and see character portraits, you speak of the characters as if they were living people, almost acquaintances.

That‘s very nice what you‘re saying. Apart from the fact that I‘ve been dealing with these characters for weeks and that they come to life through the actors, I also have, in many plays, very concrete people in mind –  acquaintances of mine – and often think: This or that character is like him or her.

As an artist, do you also recognize yourself to some extent in the character of McNeal?

Yes and no. I don‘t see myself in McNeal in the sense that I‘d say I‘m like him, but I was very close to this type of person, and they influenced me for a long time. You need to know two things about this. First, I come from Hungary. Society there is far more patriarchal than in Germany. Second, my father died when I was young, and I started looking for father figures very early. These things came together: As a directing student, as a young man, I was often in the environment of such patriarchal artists and teachers. And the type of communication I experienced from them – handling everything with threats or the exercise of force and power – was traumatic for me. At the same time, in my youth it was also something that I thought I had to do the same way, or that I should function that way too. By the way, I left Hungary partly because at some point I wanted to get away from this kind of interaction.

What do you hope the audience takes away from the performance of the play?

Jacob McNeal is an ambivalent character: a ruthless egoist, but also a great writer. We can analyze and judge ideologically for a long time, but in the end the question remains: What do we do with talent? I don‘t mean to say that someone who has talent, perhaps even is a genius, is allowed to do everything. But he does write books that are good. What do we do with that? That‘s a difficult question. And I‘m glad I don‘t have to answer it. In any case, I hope that we succeed in conveying the complexity of McNeal to the audience, and that the audience is also willing to go along with that.

Marcel Reich-Ranicki once said on a TV show: „There are so many bastards in the world, so let‘s accept the few who have written good books.“

Or not, I don‘t know. I really stand right in the middle. I can’t say he must go, nor that he may stay. I look at such people with excitement and try not to see them only ideologically. I have a clear political opinion, but I also try to remain at least fifty percent personal when encountering real people.

Last question: As the director of this specific play and as an artist in general, how do you see the role of AI in art?

Maybe I see it too romantically, but I can‘t imagine that AI will ever achieve what truly great artists can achieve. If AI makes a film, it will never be as unpredictable as a David Lynch. I think we‘ll eventually have a competitive situation. Not in terms of quality, but in terms of availability and the cost of cheaper production.

This interview was originally held and published in German on the 25th of September. It was translated into English with the use of Artificial Intelligence.